Were prisons designed to rehabilitate or punish? We know that family members and friends get sentenced to go there, but they never come back quite the same. On this episode Joe Watkins speaks with a businessman, Joe Harford, who has been urging Pennsylvania’s leaders to rethink prisons, and he’s had powerful allies—including a popular former Secretary of Corrections. Tough law and order people who care about victims and their families are also saying it’s time to change our thinking about prisons. (Original Airdate 3-5-22)